What in the wide, wide world of sports is a “Ponzi scheme”? I’m glad you asked. No, Ponzi is not that cool guy from Happy Days. But, he is a greasy-haired goombah. He made millions off of ignorant folks with his infamous pyramid scheme in 1920, where he promised ridiculous returns by “supposedly” buying foreign postage vouchers (International reply coupons) at low rates and exchanging them for U.S. postage stamps for profit. Although legal, Ponzi’s problem was that he was just using new investors’ money to pay prior investors’ returns for their contributions. The scheme eventually crumbled (as all pyramid schemes do) and Charles Ponzi, like Bernie “Made-off,” ended up in prison. Good ridance!
So what does Amway have to do with this? One thing I’ve heard my whole life is that Amway is nothing but a pyramid scheme (check out the YouTube video). I thought that Amway had worn out its welcome, but lately, I’ve started seeing TV commercials recruiting people to “own their own business.” Really? How can they still swindle people into buying into this old economic hoax? I have no idea. After years of operating under the alias, “Quixtar North America,” they’ve decided to bring back the old name but with a new hook, “Amway Global.” Woooo! Don’t you want to be a partner in a “global” business? You can sign me up (Kilroy says: NOT).
I was so intrigued by this “new” marketing of an “old” scam, that I searched for and found Amway’s website, where I discovered this pithy little Amway verbiage: “Now, Quixtar North America is making a transition to the Amway Global™ brand to leverage the power of the $6.8-billion business Rich and Jay built” (Rich and Jay are the co-founders of Amway). Leverage? I’ve never heard any good stories about Amway. Most of the stories I’ve heard rival the ones of the Jehovah’s Witness door-to-door recruiting tactic. Why would ANYONE fall for this scam again? Is it the economy? Is economic crisis part of Amway’s latest ploy to lure stupid people into Amway's web of ignorance?
Again, I don’t know. But, if you want to own your own business, Amway is "there for you." All you have to do is sign a registration contract with an existing IBO, which either stands for “Independent Business Owner” or “Ignorant B.S. Operative” (I’m not sure), and you are ready to go. Yeah, [twirling finger in the air] sounds great… I could be my own boss, make my own rules…well, that is after I pay the Amway Global Business Services and Support fee of $50, the IBOAI Support fee of $9, and purchase their Product Intro Pack for a minuscule $78.75. That’s it folks. Just that…and, of course, the lack of guilt for pushing needless crap on your friends and family. They even encourage you to buy a lot of their products so that you “will gain knowledge” of what you’re selling. You know, so you’ll be a better salesperson (man, what philanthropists). If you are a real go-getter, you can even sign new victims…ahem…er, uh…PROSPECTS to sell Amway for you, and you will earn a small commission off what they buy– I mean, sell.
Americans are stupid, but are we this stupid? Must be. Amway is still in business, and they somehow can afford global TV marketing (probably not on Rich and Jay's good looks). As far as I’m concerned, the Amway founders and surrogates should be guests at the same bed-and-breakfast as Mr. Made-off and Mr. Ponzi. But, I guess it’s still not illegal to be a moron in this country. In fact, any good, stupid, mulish American (I don’t mean stubborn) can still run for office…and win, too. Jiminey Christmas! Amway is just the "answer" we need for our current economic crisis — a bunch of people going door-to-door peddling “wonder-pills,” and “make-up” to people that can’t pay their mortgages.
So, when your doorbell rings, and the Ponzi on the other side says, “I’m with Amway,” you say, “No Damn-way!” And tell them to, “Amscray!”
What a great post! I found it very factual and at the same time, humurous. Yes, the age old swindle is still around and people still fall for it.
Made my serious ass laugh. I loved it.
Isn’t investing in the Stock Market or any other “investment” scheme kinda’ just the same ? The guys at the top make all the money while the guys at the bottom “hopefully” pull a profit to count on.
In just yesterday’s news, Goldman Sachs was lauded for it’s spectacular recovery from last fall’s bank bailout funds (tax-payer provided: you, your son and daughter). The $10 Billion they borrowed is soon to be repaid, due to a surprising $1.66 Billion 1st Qtr earnings report, and etc… and blah, blah…
We get hit with all the “wonderful” or “terrible” news but never quite understand how it all happened.
Outside of the nice little sentence that makes a powerful statement: ONE OF THE BIGGEST REASONS FOR …QUICKLY REPAY …AVOID ANY RESTRICTIONS…SUCH AS RESTRICTIONS ON EXECUTIVE PAY……
I want to know how they became such a “failed” Corp as to demand bailout funds……..how they now have become such a successful Corp as to be ready to pay all that gazillions of wheelbarrows of cash back in just 6 months time…, well especially in such a terrible world economy as we have ? Did they miraculously find that pot of gold at the end of some rainbow?
Ponzi-scheme? What kind of scheme is this Goldman Sachs ? Or is the only scheme involved in fessing up to avoid said “executive pay” penalties if that’s actually what Mao will do?
Regardless, a scheme is a scheme is a scheme is a scheme.
Just some are more legal than others, I suppose.
Besides, poor G Sachs and “Made-off”……..and those good top tier folks at Amway…………..it’s prob GW’s fault anyhoot.
Yes, Virginia, Americans are THAT STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!! It’s just the Amway……er, uh the American Way.
Sorry Dave, but it’s not the same at all. You see, we taxpayers know that bailouts are dumb, but we have no choice. Ponzi schemes are predicated on the idea that the “investor” thinks he’s gonna get rich, but gets swindled. So, if YOU think YOU will get rich from bailouts, then I would have to say, yes you are a victim of a Ponzi scheme. But I doubt you are that gullible.
Bailouts are something totally different, because they are done by force. They’re worse than Ponzi, they suck out loud. But, we voted for the people in charge (or someone did and still does), so how can we complain? I guess if we want to point fingers, they should point to the idiots that voted for the “idiots” in Washington.
Investing is a scheme? That sounds like something an Amway diamond would teach off a tape. How exactly do “all the guys at the top” make money in the investment world? Investing allows the little guy to leverage some of his income.
Amway is different because you have two businesses running side by side. You have the Amway business where the upline diamonds make most of the money while all of the “little guys” do all the work.
Then you have the tools business where the upline diamonds make all of the money by lying to downline that tapes and seminars are vital to their success in Amway. There is no bonafide proof that these tapes and seminars do anything except to take money out of people’s bank accounts.
We appreciate the comment from “quixtarisacult,” and though he/she did not “pitch” his/her site, I thought that anyone interested should visit the blog and read a more in-depth version of the Amway deception.
Here’s the url: http://quixtarisacultintervention.blogspot.com/
It may seem verbose, but it is crammed full of info. Enjoy!
So, Ron and Steve, when people “invest” (like most of us do) in the market or Amway or gold or land or any other “speculation” …isn’t that what they call it = “speculation” ? like going to the boat and gambling on the $20 they took to hit it jackpot……..does anyone see the friggin’ point ?
Speculation. No guaranteed returns. But, the point of “investing” is to hit the jackpot……so when I retire I can live the same lifestyle of working income, without working. To plan to make money for FREE!!! by investing. Investing in the “hope” some other poor schmuck is going to invest also (oppossingly) and lose (so you win). It reminds me of the poker table !!! Sometimes I have won, sometimes I have lost, because I am not as shrewd and “poker-faced” as those winners (who would take my shoes and pants if I’d let them).
If you really wanted to do that, then you could actually save the cash yourself and live off what you “earned”. It’s not about earning anything, rather making a buck or two or a cool $mil$ without lifting a finger that the American dream aspires.
When our “invested” hard earned cash went in the pooper…well, where did it go ? Did it vanish? Where did yours go Ron? Vanish or into some “players” pockets (kinda’ like at the poker table)??? If it just vanished, then it wasn’t really there to begin with, just virtual wealth. I suppose we just pay virtual taxes for foolish bailouts to Corporations who have virtual “losses” that create the virtual need for bailouts (yes dumb) because America needs these Corps to survive( yes we do) but we don’t need them sucking all of the virtual “profits” out of the virtual system.
If the Realtors and banks pushed the “market value” of property up well beyond its actual value just to make a buck, you think it’s “fair” just because some idiot is willing to pay the outlandish price?….is this similar to a Ponzi Scheme? How many bankers and realtors are going to jail ? I could give you a short list of some who are very guilty….but geez, no crime, even tho some folks in some areas now find their properties worth alot less than they were convinced to buy them for (convinced by bank and realtor).
Can anyone rationalize how GS got on track so fast in such a terrible world market (so we hear) ? Can anyone rationalize how a money manager is worthy of the income they get ? Can anyone rationalize how anyone is worthy of $Mil/yr let alone several $Mil ? Before you have a stroke, I am NOT!!!!! against wealthy folk, just against the acid trip many are on to obtain wealth at no end…….the pro athlete who “can’t live off of $9Mil/yr”……the system of the “mo’ the merrier”…the rich azzhode who refuses to share a penny…the United GreedyStates of America who can’t stand to learn to be content with what they have……..of the reason a “Christian” man could support such lustful thinking. In my own conscience, if I paid $100 to go see an overpaid athlete or some investment guru at the Marriott, I’ll have at least $100 to help the peoples down the street who are struggling to put a meal on the table for their 6 and 8 year old kid when they’d bust their butts for any dollar.
There are indeed wealthy folk who make huge differences in this world and for them we should all be indebted. But, there’s another group who cause greater damage. There’s also this group who constantly strives to make “mo’ money” to catch up to the aforementioned 2 groups.
I am not as the mind of the “wizard” of this site….my good ole’ buddy…..but, a fool I am not. Fooled too many times, became a wiser man. Traveled down a few too many roads I should never have ventured, they be wolves a ‘waiting to devour, but even still, I lived to fight another day.
Knowledge is a great blessing, wisdom an even greater “return on my investment”.
So actually… all you guys chase for the dollar need to really be worrying about bypassing all these “takers” and get right at the source of this wealth, great returns, pot of gold……….. instead of trusting these middleman brokers and top level management , those who mostly make a larger portion of your “profits” than income you make in a year. You call that a folly of thoughts………so mote it be.
As Kilroy says, “no damn-way”…and I shall retire myself from this endless debate.
Dave, Dave, Dave…
Your ferocity is not falling on deaf ears, but you need to check your logic. Turn off your emotional switch, and turn on your thinking switch.
I don’t want to argue, because I think we intrinsically agree, but you are making silly assertions here. I will explain why.
First, when you buy-in to a “legitimate” investment, you own “equity.” Take your 401K for instance. You purchase investments (mostly mutual funds that spread risk to avoid loss) and you “own” those shares. Just because the market is down right now, doesn’t mean I have to “cash-in.” I would be stupid to sell my shares in a low market, although some people do. They do because they panic. That is their ignorance and stupidity “rearing their ugly heads.”
To compare pyramid schemes or Ponzi schemes to investment is, well, dumb. In those schemes, you are left with NOTHING. With investments, you have a share that you cannot be forced to sell, no matter how low the market drops. Especially concerning mutual funds, just hang on, and they will be worth more tomorrow. You are NOT throwing your money away.
You stated, “When our “invested” hard earned cash went in the pooper…well, where did it go ? Did it vanish? Where did yours go Ron?”
Guess what, I don’t have any investments, because I don’t make a lot of money. BUT, if I were able to invest, I would know that my shares would still be there, and I would know that selling in a “bear market” is just, stupid. So, in 5 years, when my shares would be worth 10 times what they are now, I would be bragging to you that waiting out the market “paid off.”
If you look into it, the US stock market has returned over 12% in any ten year period since the 1929 crash. So, comparing investing to Ponzi schemes is inaccurate.
It seems like you are trying to pick a fight…?
When you invest, the stock may go up and down yes. Thus the term “buy low and sell high”. Right now, the economic downturn has hurt 401K balances. But there are some investors who see this as an opportunity. Buy in now and more than likely, the stock market will recover in a few years. Even if the stock goes down, as Ron said, you can still sell it for something.
The Amwat business is like a ponzi scheme because thousands or maybe millions of suckers join, “invest” their time and money and it is mathematically impossible for more than a few of them to prosper unless they in turn recruit many many more suckers. If you were not one of the lucky few who made money, there is nothing you can “sell off” to recoup any cash.
All you have left is a bad experience. That is why Amway has a lousy reputation.
I have to agree a little with everyone. Amway and the stock market are a long ways apart. But I agree they are both scams. The markey is just legal…
In the Amway scam, you are convinced/brainwashed that you will make money selling their product, and people you recruit will make money selling their product. However, Amway knows that the real profit is from signing all those suckers up to buy product to sell. Whether they sell or not is moot; Amway has made its money.
On the stock market, folks are convinced they can buy low and sell high. But that clearly can’t work for everyone. And since the stock brokers get a commission, they make money whether you win or lose. True, they make mor if you do, but their meat and potatos comes from the constant buying and selling as stocks jump around from owner to owner.
Both schemes are reprehensible. In btoh cases, the mark, sorry, consumer, is convinced that they will make a profit. Instead, they should be firmly educated that any investment is just gambling.
On yet another hand though, if you buy stock, don’t you see a little return if the company posts profits? And even if you do have a closet full of Amway crap, it’s tangible goods that you yourself could use.
Other scams leave you with nothing. Like the lottery check scam. Or the classic Nigerian 419 scam. Both of these scams promise you something and deliver nothing.
Hey, wait a minute. That sounds like the current Federal Administration! I Hope they leave me some Change!
Trog, you’re such a caveman.
The market is not a scam. If anyone buys and sells on a regular basis, without real knowledge, then they are just stupid. They’re not being scammed.
That’s like saying cooking is a scam, because when I put a cake in the oven and take it out 5 minutes later, it’s all gooey and stuff. Damn Betty Crocker, scamming me out of my money!
No , Ron that’s like me cooking for real !!! I can grill and fry fish, etc… but the baking is ……..well, not my forte.
I am not picking a fight…….just, well, you don’t see the point I am trying to make and well…….it is what it is. I “know” about mutual funds and the “investing” aspect, etc… and just seem to come to the conclusion that you don’t know “WHAT ELSE” I know. (the opposing side I take that you don’t understand). Like my wonderful dealings with Realty and what was once offered to me. It’s not “what” was offered but the “how” it was offered, on top of the several dealings that took place. This same “offer” is part of why so much of the housing market is where it is……builders bankrupt (and not paying their debt), banks in the “red”, people’s home values worth less than they were “convinced” to buy them for .
In the “market” no you don’t have to sell, but if you bought at $3.68/share and are holding at $1.29 (you do the math on a daily-rate) until it bumps back up……well, guess I should be controlling my own investments instead of somebody else? Well, I say that considering they are still making profits …(on my loss?) and the well……..this needs to be reserved for somewhere else.
I’ll just say it anyways…you are right, “investing” is not quite the same as a Ponzi scheme. Ponzi is illegal, but “investment” plans are legally designed ; today we are seeing the bad effects of “investing” (for the little guy). But , you know Ron, just like our National Government Officials, when their “Chief” calls for all to sacrifice to get thru these hard times……will they get a cost-of-living increase this year? They have “earned” it I suppose, Dem and Rep alike, all the same, all the same as the Corporations and Brokerage firms who still make hay while your stocks “tank”. How does that figure out?
Maybe the same as you did not answer how Goldman Sachs could rationally recover so quickly from their default. They can “sell” it to you, but will you buy it ?
Trog got real close, reeeeeeeaaaaalllllllll close.
He seems kinda simple and meat-n-taters like me. But, he too, is smarter than he “appears” ………seems what the “world” wants and likes doesn’t always adhere to what I want and like. And when it comes to money, well I am either rich or poor, depends on how you look at it.
Ferocious? Well…..just a little, I am fed up but…..if you want a fight, I’ll pick it, just don’t hurt me…I bruise.:)
I would hate to bruise all over you
In all seriousness, politics and “current events” is not what I am about. It’s “relevent” just not important.
Sorry folks, but clearly you have not researched before commenting. For under $100 anyone can start a business of their own selling Amway sourced products. The list of choices (all included in the sign up fee) is simply overwhelming. Nutrilite (#1 in the World), Artistry (a better choice than Avon or Mary Kay), Ribbon Gift Cards (a market simply not open to independant businesses), Water filter systems, home air filtration systems,..etc.etc.
You never have to sell a single product to family to earn incomes starting at $16,470 a year. Is it easy..NO, but if someone worked 20 hours a week they are “almost” assured success.
No one starting an Amway business should even consider, downlines, sponsoring, tools, etc. That is irrelevant to building your own direct sales business.
Look people need to buy their vitamins, cosmetics, Health friendly cleaning products, gift cards, etc.,somewhere! The products are competitively priced so what’s the problem.
I have a person who was working in a donut shop for 40 hours a week being treated like crap who now makes the same income selling Artistry cosmetics with NO downline.
Clearly a person needs to be intelligent enough to seek guidance and help in starting thier business. But that help should cost NOTHING!
For 100 bucks they even give you 4 personally branded websites including hosting and ecommerce for the year.
What am I missing. If someone wants $300,000 a year go elsewhere but for $16,000 t0 $120,000 this is a great business model with no restrictions.
Rare in yesterday’s world and rarer still in today’s.
Regards
Ross
yes, I do offer amway products as an additional source of income in my business!
Ross, yes, you can make some money selling some Amway products. However, they are difficult to sell as retailers have the same or similar products which are much cheaper. Even if you find and retain some customers, making a consistent income is hard. Amway itself verifies that their products are primarily bought and consumed by their IBO’s and not to outsiders. You also have restrictions on advertising and thus selling by word of mouth, one on one is very inefficient and time consuming. It is much easier to find a job to earn a consistent income.
"……….but lately, I’ve started seeing TV commercials recruiting people to “own their own business.” Really? How can they still swindle people into buying into this old economic hoax?………"
Owning your own business is an economic hoax? I hope I'm misunderstanding your statement. Owning your own business is what built this country. There are 27 million small businesses in the US that employ 80% of the workers.
Jay, you are right. Owning your own business is what built this country. But, Amway is a scam.
If you are an IBO, what percentage of Amway stock do you hold? Hmmm. So do you really own your own business? No, you are a glorified door-to-door salesman — of course, you front the overhead costs. There is a word for an economic system where there is a centralized control of business, where you are at the mercy of other people and have no say. That is called Communism, my friend.
How do they manage to keep scamming people? Well, let's just say that I am a teacher, and I have asked dozens of 18-25 year-olds if they've heard of Amway and only about two or three said yes. That's how, we don't teach our kids about history.
The products Are indeed quite good. I do like ‘em. I’ve tried selling the products myself and didn’t get anywhere. But I continued trying. Every month, I spend £100 on products cos that’s the requirement for commission, which is 25% off. Oh so I spend £75-£80 a month. Still can’t sell a lot of it. And we can’t promote products using their brand names cos its against their rules. I tried selling them on ebay and I got a warning over the phone. So I still can’t get them to sell. What should I do?
I feel like I’ve wasted more money than earning money.
The Internet made IBOs completely irrelevant. Why do you need all these individual people to sell these products? You don’t. Before you could kind of BS your way into saying direct marketing to people had a niche, but nowadays? Come on. If I want to order something I’ll go to Amazon.com.
Amway isn’t really interested in selling products. That’s why they have all those rules about how to sell them. It’s a giant scam to get people to buy in and pay ridiculous fees. That’s how they make their money. I can’t believe the FTC never found them to be a pyramid scheme.