How to beat a conservative in an argument.
1. Don't play by the rules.
Conservatives like using standard rules of engagement when it comes to debating. They expect you to make an assertion followed by a well reasoned argument to support the assertion, and they expect equal time. They will actually listen while you talk. When you've finished, they expect you to return the favor. Don't do it. Instead, have your say, feeling free to embellish where necessary. But when your conservative friend starts talking, see that you interrupt him and do it often. Don't ever let him finish his thought. Be rude! This keeps him off balance and you firmly in the driver's seat. Your credo, "Strike hard! Strike fast! No mercy sir!"
2. Don't ever engage or otherwise directly address their arguments
Conservatives like to use logic, reason and facts in order to win the debate. Your strategy, never, and I mean never reason with them in a linear, step by step fashion. Never agree with them either, especially when they use factual information. A favorite opening hook used by this breed is, "Would you agree that?" This is usually a simple question with a common sense answer. Even if by chance you do happen to agree with your conservative friend's premise, don't yield to the temptation to answer in the affirmative. The moment you do, you might as well throw in the towel. Conservatives will then argue quite convincingly from the premise you just agreed to, using your own words against you to make their point. Instead, tap dance around the argument. You may even use some of the same lingo as your conservative opponent, but pour your own meanings into the terms. This positively drives them bananas.
3. Change the subject.
The first time I tried this on a die hard conservative, his eyes rolled back in his head and he keeled over. This is because a conservative's primary epistemology comes by way of three elements: causality, logic, and the basic reliability of sensory perception. They aren't prepared for people who get most of their information through television. While there is an up side, the down side is TV has contributed to a higher degree of Attention Deficit Disorder in liberals than in the general population. Equally, the high incidence of A.D.D. has caused most in our camp to be myopic concerning social policy. But that's not the point; your goal is to win the argument. Do so by making the most of your handicap. Then watch your conservative friends hit the deck. It's a hoot.
4. Yell and scream. Otherwise known as: "raising your voice when you should be strengthening your argument."
A conservative's stoic approach to arguing comes from knowing that pure emotionalism yields chaos in the real world. And their ability to argue dispassionately is legendary. This is due in part to well developed frontal lobes–the section of the brain, which governs critical thinking skills. This clearly gives them the advantage in the intellectual arena. However, raising your voice a few decibels often disrupts the resonant frequencies of their gray matter. This harmonic disturbance can also be strengthened by pitch shifting or raising your voice an octave or so.
5. Ad hominem arguments
When arguing a point, conservatives expect you to treat them as they treat you–with respect. Their arguments will never become ad hominem unless the assertions they are making have direct bearing on the subject at hand. In this case and in general, conservatives' sense of fair play is their undoing. So they are always blindsided by this tack. Your strategy is to keep them off balance by attacking their character. Be sure to use labels like "bigot" and "homophobe." Call them "narrow minded" and "intolerant." Accuse them of having ulterior motives. Call them "disingenuous" and "hypocritical." These last two terms in particular are staples of our name calling strategy.
6. Reframe any argument as religion vs. (fill in the blank). Need I say more?
7. Use your stature or lack thereof to intimidate your opponent.
I have seen this strategy used effectively in a couple of different ways. For starters, if you are bigger, you can use your superior size to scare your opponent. This works especially well if you use threatening tones and a lot of hand wringing or fist clenching. On the other hand, if you are small in stature compared to your opponent, you can accuse him or her of being biased against short people. If you are a minority, you can couple this strategy with rule # 5, calling them "racist," etc. You get the idea.
8. Lie
Only use this tactic as a last resort. You'll find it usually works when nothing else will, particularly when used in conjunction with tears or oscillating between tears and rule number 4. Once again, conservatives expect your facts to be accurate (theirs are). As Goebel allegedly said, "a lie moves in proportion to its size." So don't just lie; lie big. Besides, people in general have an uncanny ability to believe the most august nonsense. Even if your opponent calls you out, chances are if you really sell your story most people will believe you, and you will win in the court of public opinion. Remember, in politics it's not whether you tell the truth, it's how many people believe you.
The problem with this is that most conservatives and people who argue like a conservative, myself included, will simply say that your being irrational and illogical and thus it's impossible to argue with you. This doesn't mean you've beaten the conservatives argument, it simply means you've shown the conservative that your not worthy of arguing with.
Good point. But then, what liberal is worth arguing with? Better to just skip the formalities and immediately start hurling insults. That's where it'll end up anyway. Might as well, save time and go straight for the throat. Rational argument accomplishes nothing when dealing with people who don't think in logical categories and who like to pass off their liberwock fantasies as fact.
True. and anyway throwing insults at each other is the funnest part of arguing lol
I concur, G.O.L. Some ppl just can't get into the spirit of debate…LOL.
Well, Chad and G.O.L., sounds like you are just mad that we have a black president. I can tell, because you want rich people to collect money from the poor. Both of you are hypocrites, I can tell without knowing you.
By the way, Chad, you're using triangular logic to prop up a fellatious argument with faulty promiscuity.
Well, Chad and GirlOfLogic., it sounds like you are just mad that we have a black president. I can tell, because you want rich people to steal money from the poor and elderly. Both of you are hypocrites, I can tell without knowing you.
By the way, Chad, you're using triangular logic to prop up a fellatious argument with faulty promiscuity.
Spoken like a true liberal. Oh, and BTW, Juan…er, uh…I mean Ron, my logic is squarular. PLEASE! For the love of God, buy a dictionary. You'll have to read it…and understand it.
Oh, so you are a racist too, Chad? Are you trying to insult me by calling me Mexican. You people are full of hate.
Bigot.
LOL…oh Ron, you angry little man. You're such a puppet of the moonbat establishment, I should've called you Pawn instead of Juan. Just so you know, I only chose the name Juan because it rhymes with Ron and because the name canotes a certain, shall we say, political flavor–one which is consistent with your utterly inane political philosophy. But that doesn't mean I'm being disparaging of all Hispanics, everywhere in both place and time. It just means that, taken as a generalization for the overwhelming number of illegals in this country, the way illegals' political leanings derive is liberal democrat..You, sir, sound just like "one of them." But yes, I was insulting you, and I consider it my solemn duty to pummel you until you cry like the liberal pansy you are.
The day that man realizes he does not "have" to be right to be a real man is the day……well, not on this earth.
Extremism is ALWAYS wrong……even in Conservatism and religion.
The only reason we have the "Right" and the "Left" ……….the Christianity and and Muslim and a gazillion others is NOT because of "freedom of choice" given us………….it's because we man cannot subscribe to His correctness and need "freedom" to allocate a new definition for His perfect way.
In layman's terms………we need to be free to satisfy our own lustful, worldly desires.
Both sides are wrong, but neither is man enough to admit it.
Stick that in your pipe and smoke it !!!
LOL…I stopped smoking a long time ago, pal.
Yes, extremism is a kind of fundamentalism in my book, Dah. I see it everywhere I look, even in the mirror…LOL. But seriously, fundamentalism (extremism) doesn't discriminate. I see it among Christians, Muslims, and everything in between. I see it in political circles, and yes, I see it among those who claim no allegiance to anything, even atheists.
But back to your last point about both sides being wrong. I do believe you're right about that, to the extent that we go to the extreme. I do not think, however, that conservativism as a philosophy is wrong. I think that as philosophy goes, it's an ideal, and a good one at that. The irony is that politics bears out not the ideal, but the real…worts and all. So, we have a dichotomy in politics between philosophies which are based on someone's concept of the ideal and the reality which never quite measures up. That's what we get, because mankind is involved. I believe that as long as man is imprisoned in his current state, he will continue to fall far short of these ideals. But I also believe that our lack of integrity as human beings shouldn't stop us from trying to live up to something better. What do you think?
I agree with all your concept……truthfully, and really I do…….
It’s just that being a snide and conniving “serpent” like they are does not win the “prize.” We are impassioned to be as “shrewd AS the serpent”…(not be THE serpent) …and of course that leads one to forget the most important part = “innocent as the dove.”
Like something I recently spoke with you about that behooves my intellectual side:
Thou shalt not kill. …….oops, except when the “enemy” is bad and must be killed. God says to us (I suppose) one of His great Commandments is Thou Shalt Not Kill, except for when I tell you to.
My Civil War readings leave me bewildered how men of great stature and faith in Our Living God….men of incredible daily walk, turn on the battlefield to say “kill them all”…..”kill the brave ones first, we want none of them to be brave”…….of course, both sides of these great men thought the opposition to be “evil” and the “enemy.”
I must ponder the reality of how much in these evaluations of correctness we make to vilify our behavior our Father holds in pleasure? Whether for the “greater cause” or not, the means of getting there is just as important. We all understand the bitterness of the abortion issue, but for certain ones to commit murder in the stead is not any less criminal/immoral than those whom they seek to change.
We must not allow our emotions to get the better of us, no matter how “wrong” they are or how “right” we are.
We can live up to the integrity we believe in (shrewdness included) without becoming the serpent tactician some others use as a weapon. It just seems to me you throw your hands in the air at times and say you just beat them at their own game.
Better to “win” the game with a clean conscience before the Only One who matters.
Nope, you’re right in what you prob thinking………I am no better, just sharing the word of faith that I constantly tell my own self. I know you understand when you look in the mirror also.
Can’t proclaim I am right, just put my 2cents-worth out there.
Yeah, I agree. We shouldn't be snide. But once again, we're talking about the ideal vs. the real. In a perfect world I wouldn't just cut straight to the insults with liberals. Would that we lived in that perfect world where rational argument can actually be had. I guess I've become jaded by my interactions with liberal junkies. I used to believe in taking the "high road" with their ilk. I no longer believe that now. Instead, it's a time management thing. I spent all my patience and magnanimity on liberals my first two years of blogging. If I ever find one who can actually be civil, as opposed to what I've been exposed to in the blogosphere, I will return that civility in kind. But until that day, the only thing they'll get from me is the rake and then a swift kick out the door. That's where I am today.
You said the whole "Thou shalt no kill" thing didn't work for you intellectually. I hate saying this, because it sounds pompous and arrogant, but I used to think as you do on that particular piece of theology. I really felt God was being a hypocrite and I resented Him for it. Then I discovered something. Our English translation is flawed. What it really says is, "You shall not murder." That little nugget solved the problem for me, since killing and murder are not the same thing. But then, like most things, solving that riddle leads to a whole host of other moral and intellectual problems, which I have no answer for…at least not one which satisfies me.
Finally, are you saying you don't believe the views you just stated are correct? If so, I'm wondering what possible reason you would have for stating them as the truth. It's a bit confusing for me, so I hope you'll explain this. It sounds like you just said, in effect…"Here are a bunch truth claims…you know, a whole bunch of stuff I believe to be true, so much so, that I live by them…but here's the kicker: I don't proclaim that I'm right. In point of fact, I don't proclaim anything I just said is true…even this statement." I don't know if that's what you meant or not, bro. But that's how it sounds. Please clarify.
Have a good one, man. Oh…and don't work too hard.
Dah, you act like you're not a conservative, but you are… I know.
There is no such thing as right and wrong, it's just each person's perspective. What is right for you is not necessarily right for me.
Do you really believe in that mythology called christianity? All scientific facts support Evolution. I've read it in many books, and you can't deny that. Charles Darwin was a brilliant man, and we used to be monkeys. I read that, too.
If you want to sound smart, read a science book — science is infallible.
Ron,
That's "progress," Man as the master of his universe. Might as well drink and be merry as tomorrow we'll all be food for worm.
More of "ME" and a lot less of others.
Okay, guys, stop the whipping post treatment.
My point I should clarify (said so above) is that you "conservative" , self-labeled people have no worldly claim but within your own "self" to be right……you know ….RIGHT!!!
Ron's correct, in this world there is no right or wrong, only the self-perceived illusion we cling to…that which we adhere to within our acceptable conscience. Maybe to Him, it matters not as long as we hold to "something" til death and maintain a firm grasp on our beliefs. That is one man's perception.
My perception is to try and always remember that I may make a "truth" statement but know full well in the "end" on the Day , I may well be found wrong and guilty. Back to Ron's brilliant mind = right and wrong is only perceived within the human capacity. What I ask you men is if we answer to God or He will answer to us ? Is being snide and an obnoxious crude individual at times (for the Higher Cause) acceptable for being on the "right" side ? Which side is right, and from all this conjuring then either side could be Right to Him………well do you see this endless circle?
Sure, I have a pet peeve of "having to be right"……..I may well be wrong and if so I will not be to proud to admit it. I ALWAYS try to realize even if/when I believe I am right………I may find out one day I am wrong.
My "right" is not a Universal right……just me. No one's "right" is Universal.
I already knew the "kill/murder" thing , but why go there. Q: is (you knew I'd ask anyways) what is the difference and where is the line to be drawn ? Do you know, or a Lib, or me ? The "keys" for Peter were to lock people out also, but never hear that perspective preached do ya ? All are welcome ?
Chad, I don't have to be like you to be a "conservative"-minded person. I DO !!!!!!! stand for something, but being this-or-that way is not it. There are things I could say, but why ?
Ron, Christianity ? No I don't believe the brand they sell. Now Science is the greatest gift God gave man. One must read-between-the-lines to fully understand that one. For, in that answer is finding out the answer to question #1. Don't even go there on Darwin, what ye belittleth me ?
Oh, yeah, reminds me of a furious Christian man who cooks weekends at his church for the "needy" and yes…….the advertisement specifically states : "ALL ARE WELCOME". Many, many show up. He and some other of the "church elders" are irked because people eat and never show up for church, they prob go to all these "free" church functions , blah,blah,blah…it just ain't right. !!!!!!!!! That's his bitch, but hey, he advertised and they come. They don't see his way of "right"…….so who's wrong ? One or the other or both? Wear the mask and pay the fee, or put the sign away and be a hermit. That is what we all need to see. We all still just want to see what "we" want to see and believe.
Lastly, no one ever said this was a perfect (ideal) world………just try to be a perfect (ideal) person amongst it. I am not casting stones, geez!!!!! I prob deserve more than you……..just back to my reason of why never to proclaim I am ultimately "right" and another is "wrong". To me, that is fruitless endless debate…….why there are multitudes of religions and beliefs of government.
I say why it never works out is that people just flat out refuse to get along and accept or unite with anyone of opposite belief. Neither side is right. Don't get me wrong, the Left is UN!!!!!!!!!!reachable. And I see where there may be cause for a "fight" for rights. Throwing the hogshit like they do doesn't seem to set well with me. Why be like them…….there is a better way to spread the "truth".
Better shut up or you'll "figure me out". Yeah right > love ya guys even if we disagree.
Well, the feeling is mutual, pal. And let me go further and say that I am so glad that we can have this discussion without everyone getting pissed off at each other. But I also gotta say that your way of going at this drives be bananas, man. Sometimes I think you do it just because it drives me bananas…LOL.
Anyway, I appreciate your attempt at clarifying this for me. I really do. And I don’t mean to be obtuse, but now I’m even more confused. This view simply makes no sense to me. I'm forced to ask what you mean when you call something "right." Isn't that the opposite of "wrong"? To reiterate from my perspective, you're correcting me and/or Ron. Why? Because we're "wrong," of course. Then you turn around and say you're not claiming to be right. After that you state: "No one's 'right' is universal." I'm wondering how you know that view is…well, right, seeing as how the statement is, itself, a universal truth claim, which fails to satisfy its own requirements. It’s a statement which commits suicide. It’s self refuting. Kind of like saying, “I can’t speak a word in English.” The moment you utter such a statement it commits hari kari. I mean, think about it; if no one's "right" is universal, then even your "right" can't be universal and self destructs. Moreover, if you're not right, then why should I listen to you when you chastise me for how I treat liberals? After all, you're just stating something which probably isn't right anyway….right? But since you can’t know that (the rightness of the supposition you put forth) then you had probably better not answer that. Otherwise, you’ll get impaled on the very truth, you claim is not true. Sorry, man. I just don’t get it. I’ve seen this tack lots of times before and I don’t think any of those trying to explain it to me have done a better, or more thorough job than you…But it is totally and completely lost on me. So, I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree.
Have a good one and talk to you later, bro.
Okay, I must apologize. I know that Chad knew I was playing the role of self-righteous, elitist liberal.
Dah, you know my true beliefs, and I thought you would catch my tongue-in-cheek tack. I guess I know libtards so well, that I can be convincing. For the record, I believe there is absolute right and truth, yet still we sometimes get in squabbling matches about what is wrong and who is wrong. God is always right, regardless if we are privy to His Omniscience or not (I believe we are not).
Here is my logically reasoned assertion: We can't have the mind of God, yet God is omniscient. Therefore, we cannot say that we are always right. Yes, some things are easier to discern than others, but when we stretch our knowledge too far — i.e., to the point of claiming Omniscience — we not only are wrong by definition, but we are also diminishing the wisdom of God.
For all of you logic-lovers out there, I realize that this argument invokes circular reasoning, since the premises are not scientifically provable. However, that is what separates us all, what we choose to have faith in: science, ourselves, God. I choose God and try to speak softly and carry a big stick.
You guys are such a real hoot!!! That's what I like about it (as Chad said) agreeing to disagree because we all have different aspects of belief and confusion. Thank God.
Chad, can't explain it to you, just know the Christian-food-cooker story was meant to help because for an outsider I see both sides being right or wrong. Same I can say for Left and Right peoples. I know for you, you need the affirmation of being "right" or maybe better said "standing" for something and that something becomes your "right". We are all that way, hell am I not standing for something and that is my "right" ? Maybe my "right" comes more into Ron's definition than yours, but it is "right" for me. Ron had no reason to apologize, yet he did (being the man he is and doesn't have to always be right) and you likewise have done before. The chuckles and grins typing that response, just knowing it is part of the fun here on these blogs amongst real men and friends. I also realize for you to try to soundly and reasonably communicate with a true Lefty is near impossible (at the least). But, from the same said story previous…….you choose to wear the mask so you must also be willing to pay the price.
Ron's absolutes are true ,there I said that one Chad:-) , but I just don't believe there are so many absolutes within the human realm such as "religious" or "political" beliefs. Here is another analogy-type to throw at you………when one is told to act/react within the "length of his cabletow" , there is no absolute (or as I said Universal) …but is based upon an individual limit. However, that is like a subtitle or chapter of an entire book which states a basis for ones "acts/reactions". There is no "get out of jail free" card or "free pass" involved for conduct unbecoming of…
Sure, Chad, I am saying in this matter I am right………..I don't have to beat my manly chest, flabbergast everyone else (your opponent) , or proclaim victory to be right. By not "saying" it is my way of just saying "I am right" but what does that matter…………and there is ALWAYS the possibility of waking up one day and finding out I was wrong. Lack of an absolute in too many areas of these topics. Why proclaim certainty of "right" in uncertain and non-absolute ways. My absolutes of "right" are irrelevant , at least for these topics and this world. Any schmo could "prove" they are right with enough gibberish or scientific evidence. Too many "wise" men have and do hide "truths" on the same basic principles. It's not any matter of right or wrong, just power and control and winning.
The wife and I , one nite last week, looked up at the stars and discussed how this land and these people and these "beliefs" have evolved for the last thousands of years. We also noticed that these stars and planets have stayed the course……..absolute. One cannot base their being upon evolving and ever-changing "truths". Facts are based upon constants. There is no constant or absolute in man's belief.
I do not "worship" science………but as I said, the greatest gift God gave man. There are many forms of "science" and many abused for "religious" and "political" purpose. Science is not to blame, rather the man behind the "proclamation". Science shows absolutes, but man can and does manipulate the results to enforce his own opinion………….even in the "science of religion".
Til next time………aaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggh.
LOL:)
'Bout damn time you said it.
Wasn't so hard was it? Now I'll be able to sleep tonight..hehehe
See you next time, then, pal.
so u just cheat? wha a stupid tactic it just proves your wrong
Of course, it proves I'm wrong. That was the entire point. This little excursion was something I threw together to poke fun at liberals. It was done tongue-in-cheek. It looks like hyperbole, but it isn't, which makes even more humorous.
And so it is, and so am I glad I was able to add to the mix with "confusion" of the facts……………isn't that what the Liberal actually does to have their way ?
Still, even still being so confused , they do not understand nor comprehend.
It's like a finger pointed to the moon…….
Level headed just needs "filled in". But, hey, he may be one of "them".
Perhaps he's concentrating on the finger. It looks like he just took me seriously. That has happened a lot man, especially when I'm writing political satire. I guess I should take it as a complement when someone reads my satire and thinks it's for real. LOL.
Next time…
You know, conservatives are so closed minded, I truly believe that what you are saying is so illogical is really kind of funny:) And then your acting like your ideas are the absolute right ones! Hahahahahaha I know not everyone agrees on certain topics and issues that concern politics….but at least try to to open your mind….what a life you have, badging liberals! Ha…..I have a life, so im gonna stop talking now and go do something!!!—Later:)
Chace,
Yes, go do something. Take your own advice and stop making absolute truth claims and then pretending to be open minded…ya, ya, ya hypocrite!
If you were truly open minded, you would not only accept your own view, you would accept mine too. Next, you’ll be claiming there’s such a thing as a round square and that you have sense enough to pound sand into a rat hole (not likely).
And just for clarification, we don’t go around “badging” liberals on this site. We bash them. I wouldn’t dream of badging liberals (whatever the hell that means). It sounds like some mamby pamby liberwock form of badgering, which is kind of like teasing. Believe me, such a proposition is far too weak, for anyone foolish enough to believe in the liberal way of life.
Try to open your mind, indeed. That’s exactly what Jim Jones told his people, shortly before they drank the flipping Kool-Aid.
this is sick. In a world where we need bipartisanship, you personify an entire party as stupid. Well, I have the right to personify without proof too, and I say that conservatives are the dumbest waste of life ever to inhabit this earth. They are the scum-sucking bottom feeders that leech out all joy from the world around us. They condemn those who have not an equal chance in life. I would go on, but I’m going to play tennis. The point is, for the most part non of these are true, just as for the most part, none of your personifications were true either. People are people, and, to steal a quote, If you run over them with a tank, they both bleed red (or something like that). We need mutual respect for both parties, and only this way can America go back to being the model nation, and the home of those that have been freed from the bonds of prejudice and stereotypology (if you give me some creative liaison for that phrase)
“They condemn those who have not an equal chance in life.”
?
Conservatives are AGAINST abortion…
Tennis? Tennis is for elite, whitebread snobs from New England. Do-nothing, everymen shirk their responsibilities to go play basketball:
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/98075-thousands-of-bees-swarm-white-house
I like the word “Stereotypology”. But wouldn’t it mean the study of stereotypes? I think “Stereotypitis” would be better for your purposes.
Davy = Baby
And I’ve got a some good advice for babies like yourself:
GROW UP! When you finally do, perhaps you’ll realize that respect isn’t unconditional; it’s earned and neither party deserves it.
Bob, you’re totally right that neither political party deserves any respect right now. The democrooks are a bunch of pinko commies intent on reshaping the United States into their fairy tale Marxist land, while the GOP has become a bunch of liars that promise to be hard asses and do what’s right, but cave in to special interests in a bid to keep their cushy gubmint jobs.
We need a new, third party. We have three branches of government. Christianity has a trinity. For that matter, three religions (Islam, Judaism and Christianity) all believe in God and Creationism. Even triple ply rolls of toilet paper exist. Why not a third political party?
The more you argue, the more in man-love you seem.
?
In your dreams, Wes.
OK, I find this ironic for two reasons.
1. It makes claims of liberals that are exactly what I’ve come to expect from discussions with conservatives. I have never had a conservative use facts, reason, or logic in a debate. Ever.
2. The place where public policy debate falls down is exactly where the OP is saying it does in this piece. Namely, in this piece that makes the argument about the people taking a position instead of actually discussing the position itself, he captures the heart of the failure of our current political environment where the wingnuts derail the conversation about policy by ignoring the policy and attacking the opposition as people. In essence, the poster has demonstrated behaving the very way he whines that the other side of a debate acts.
Of course, the whole thing is a waste of time because it isn’t enlightened policy debate, it is what conservatives seem to think is the same thing: third-grade sandbox arguments.
If you would like to see a demonstration of enlightened conservative debate, do a youtube search on town hall disruption. If you want to have a reasoned debate, put forth a well-reasoned argument some time. Really. I believe in the power of debate to make better societies by finding the flaws in a policy and gaming them out, forcing us to address the “what-ifs” in a given scenario. That can’t work if one side’s entire argument is “you’re stupid and anything you say is good I’m voting against because you’re stupid.”
“I have never had a conservative use facts, reason, or logic in a debate. Ever.”
I have to laugh because that’s exactly what I think of liberals, Well, not really, because I actually have some good friends who are liberals. More on that in a moment. BTW, you’re pretty good with a straw man yourself. Pointing to some hick on YouTube acting like an ass at a town hall meeting and using that as your best example of conservative thinking? Nice touch. But it won’t fly here, meatball. Your statement tells me a hell of a lot about your conservative orientation. Probably, the reason you’ve “never had a conservative use facts, reason, or logic in a debate. Ever” is because you’ve never had a discussion with a conservative. Probably don’t have any friends who are conservative, much less acquaintances who are conservative. Of course, I’m being facetious…if only slightly. It reminds me of the story of what liberals everywhere were saying after Bush Jr. “stole” the election. The quip was thus: “What do you mean Bush won? How can that be? No one I know voted for Bush.” And we all know the punchline don’t we? That’s because these liberals don’t really fraternize with conservatives. They only fraternize with one another…(just like some conservatives I know). The reason no one they knew voted that way was because they only knew folks from one particular segment of the population. It was the segment they identified with politically. They also got their information from like sources, of the liberal persuasion. No wonder their view of the world is distorted. You guys are all so busy smelling your own smug, your perception of reality has become tainted by it. You should come up for air sometime, Grim. You might actually find a conservative who thinks.
if you lie then the arguement is not valid and inturupting and changing the subject automaticly means that the other person won. I know this, im on the debate team.
“I have never had a conservative use facts, reason, or logic in a debate. Ever.” If we’re talking about the same conservatives, I completely agree.
Linda,
Please see my previous comment to Grim.
Are there “conservatives” who are of the Kool-Aid drinking ilk, which toe the party line no matter what and generally, disconnect rational thinking from political orientation? Sure. Are they representative of conservativism. No. They are not…just as their liberwock counterparts are not necessarily representative of liberalism, or in this case, neoliberalism. This is a hasty generalization, made by a majority of politically active people who, ironically, you represent. It’s easy to see when you’re dealing with that kind of mentality. The tipoff is when they use words like “never” when dealing with a particular segment of the population (usually someone they disagree with)…i.e. “they never use facts…they never use reason…they never use logic….they never blah, blah, blah.” That tells me I’m dealing with a person who has (oops) “never” been outside the insulating cocoon of their ideology. All their friends are of that particular group. They all, in general, hold the same views. They all, in general, read the same books. They get their information from the same sources. And they are, naturally, indoctrinated, well trained naked apes….who don’t even know they’re indoctrinated, well trained naked apes.
This is a sad situation, Linda. But there it is. That is the world you and I live in and are a part of. When we start thinking in terms of what “is” instead of what we “think is,” the world will look very different and we will interact with it in a way which is affective. In the meantime, see how far your endless Sisyphusism gets you.
I am a 15 year old from east Tennessee. As you may have geussed, I am a Conservative Republican and always will be. I did not come from an elitist, wealthy upper class family. I did however come from a middle class family. Growing up “average”, I realized that I couldn’t get everything I wanted. Knowing that I couldn’t always get what I wanted, I realized that niether could everyone else. That is a key reason why I am conservative. Liberals are so emotion, that they just want to please every single person in the world. BUT as I learned growing up, that is not possible. When Obama was running for president, he promised “Change”. He delievered change. But it isn’t change for the better. The biggest thing he has done as President would have to be “Obama Care”. Obama Care is a terrible piece of legislation. It will destroy jobs, cost Americans billions, and most of all ween out competition (the basic premise of our economy).One of my biggest fears is that Obama Care will not be repealed. If Obama Care remains in place America will no longer exist. I mean this statement as in Americans will no longer have “Life, Liberty, or Property.”. We will no longer have life because the health system will become bogged down and overrun, causing tremendous lack in care. I mean liberty as in we will lose the ability to chose our own health insurance. And I mean property as in the value of our dollar will drop substantially because of Obama Care.
Stephen, I can see you’re a thoughtful young person. You’re on the right track with conservativism. Just bear in mind that Obama care isn’t the real problem. It’s only a symptom of something much larger. Likely, it will not be repealed no matter what some GOP talking head, politician says. They’ll say anything to get elected and it doesn’t matter what Party they’re from. I suggest you educate yourself on what the Party has become and the commonalities shared between liberalism and neoconservativism. The similarities will surprise you. Don’t put your faith in the Republican Party. They no longer represent paleoconservativism. Rather, they represent the status quo. That means more never ending wars, more jobs shipped overseas, more expansive and intrusive government, out of control debt and spending, and an addiction to unsound paper money printed at will by the FED. Good luck.