I suggest an alternative: reasoned analysis. In the animal kingdom, survival and procreation are the only rules. In a civilization, the rules of nature alone can’t work. I can’t simply take someone else’s food because I’m hungry. Eventually, the people making the food will stop making more than they use and some redneck will take it from them with a big stick and eventually die of starvation because he’s too ignorant to know how to make more. So we make a moral rule: stealing is bad. And because stealing is bad, we can have division of labor. If everyone can steal, then division of labor does not work. Reason and logic are amazing.

So, where does homosexuality fall in? Simple, it doesn’t. Moral rules around homosexuality make about as much sense as moral rules about which hand to eat with in a society that has toilet-paper, running water, and hand disinfectant. When we used our hands to wipe our ass, it make perfect sense to agree as a society that we’d all use the same one. And that we would not use our ass-wiping hand to prepare food or greet someone else because that would be unsanitary. Yes, there was a time where we humans were so frail and small in number that jerking off and homosexual activities were counter-productive. There was also a time when eating the meat of ruminants was dangerous because we did not cook thoroughly enough. Those days are in the past for a lot of us.

The question is not really one of morality, but of freedom. Which freedom is more important, your right to choose who you have sex with and how, or your freedom from being embarrassed or offended by the thought of someone else having sex with a person or in a way you find distasteful?

The start of good law, judgment, and morality is to do no harm. The only argument that homosexuality is harmful come from the area of religious theory (also known as “making shit up to support my biases”). The fact that a person gets to make up in their mind or in their books what God thinks is right and wrong, and then prescribe that others must do one way or another to not offend this individual image of God is absurd. God gave us a mind capable of reason. We all start completely ignorant and through experience and using our gift of intelligence we can find what is right and wrong.

Morality is two things: identifying right from wrong, and choosing consciously to do right. If you gave up your reasoned mind to follow another person’s fortune-cookie morality, then you aren’t moral even if you did stumble upon doing right by accident.

First, I implicitly sought to avoid the religious argument. I won't address it again.

AWAKE: "[how about reality?]"

Yours or mine? Absolute reality would lead to God.

AWAKE: "natural” is pretty much useless as a guide because there is both good and bad in “nature”.
“Homosexuality” is simply two people having sex. thats it. marriage or NOT liking hot people of the opposite sex is NOT homosexual…its just stupid."

What are you trying to say? You don't make sense. Are you saying that it is stupid to be attracted to the opposite sex? Regardless, you admit the natural excuse is lame. Do you have a point?

If this is how you think when you are awake, I'd hate to hear your thoughts when you're asleep.

"What, then, do we use to gage right and wrong? "
[how about reality?
1) we are alive >> 2) the universe is alive
3) life matters...has value >> conclusion: live life, respect life, promote life,
how hard was that!]
"Many would say that we only have to turn to nature and
observe what the animals do. Hence, right and wrong should be defined,
not by what is moral, but what is natural.

Homosexuality is natural. Take a look at penguins, and you will quickly
see that homosexual couples are perfectly normal. Some gay penguin couples
even pretend that rocks are eggs. Isn’t that sweet? Yes, modern society
frowns upon the act of homosexuality, "

[speak for yourself]

[“natural” is pretty much useless as a guide because there is both good and bad in “nature”.
“Homosexuality” is simply two people having sex. thats it. marriage or NOT liking hot people of the opposite sex is NOT homosexual...its just stupid. we are all "naturally" bisexual...if you chose to acknowledge it or act on it thats on you...but if you bring the subject up, which you have, then its you responsibility to face the music: there are hot guys. fun guys. period. that doesnt mean you have to pretend there are not hot women. The whole Homo issue is, itself, not a big deal. its people and politics that have the problems. ]

In answer to your question about morality, I think it's best to go with the ideal.

However, your reality gage won't hunt in this context. It almost looks like you think that if you simply beg the question, it dismisses the entire argument. Like this, for example: Who are you to say life has value? What enduring principle leads you to that conclusion? Is it absolute or arbitrary?

As for speaking for himself, I believe the author just did.

Your final point is the one where you really hit the hammer on your thumb. Which makes me think you're actually asleep instead of "awake." Please explain to me how you arrive at the conclusion that there is both good and bad in nature. Are you stating that unequivocally? Also, on what do you base your claim that we are all naturally bisexual? Is that a well documented fact or just your opinion?

Finally, homosexual behavior is a big deal, if it endangers the lives you claim to value. It does. That being the case, I'm wondering how you square your claim to value life with your endorsement of a lifestyle choice which actually is detrimental to life.

Political power pushes ideology, whether it is “truth” or a lie matters not.
A big “marketing plan” I bought into (at first) several years ago had nothing to do with “truth”. The basis was to sell “your” product a.k.a any product (even a bag of [expletive]…word for word on the paperwork) no matter what it was.
Sure, the basis was that it mattered not to have a “good” product, but to be a GREAT SALESMAN. The storyline went that one could easily sell any old “bag of [expletive]” to anyone else with the “power” of sales marketing skills.

In other words, lie cheat or steal no matter…just “sell” your idea to another ignorant azz not wise enough to stop the crime.
American Freedom, we asked for it…we got it.

Well, you and I both know that they are just full of crap anyway. It still baffles me how Darwin's theory is accepted as scientific fact, when it is supported by less tangible evidence than the existence of Sasquatch and Nessie. Have you seen any photoshopped ape-men? Me neither.

The Left ain't worried about civility, they want those votes to secure all majority across the board. They can take this US of Muslim/Mexican/Idiot descent and kiss their own azz goodbye.
Nice spin on this Mr. Ron.